Thorp Air Command - T18.net

I have been working on expanding my personal envelope in the acro arena. I feel that I need to get some spin recovery training and I would like to do it in 2751.

SO, are there any Thorp specific things I should know about spinning a T18 before I get an instructor in my T-18?

Thanks, Lou

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Lou : I highly recommend an instructor that has T-18 time to conduct the spin training and has done spins in the T-18 . Nothing against a local CFI with C-150 spin training , but the T-18 is NOT a C-150 . JMHO . Maybe one of our guys this year at KVIS ? Great idea you want to get the spin training !

RB

Hey Rich, thanks for the input. If I can

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I strongly suggest you talk with someone with a great deal of actual experience in spinning a T-18.
Every homebuilt is different and reacts differently than others, even of the same design. Please talk to Gary Green before you or any one else spins your T-18!!! He has experience and is a VERY accomplished pilot. I have inadvertently got mine in a spin but did not permit go more than one turn. I understand that after two turns it is a different ball game. Both Gary and I have been flying our T-18s for 34 years so we have some experience.
Steve Hawley

I'd be interested in hearing some of the do's and dont's on this subject as well.

Somewhere in the old newsletter archives there is an article I wrote about doing spins in a T-18. I have spun my current T-18 (N218V) and I have spun my old late T-18 (N118GG) numerous times. Both are standard body, standard airfoil Thorps with fixed pitch props. If you have a wide body, folding wing, Sunderland airfoil model, constant speed, I'd recommend sneaking up on spins with great caution. If you don't know what you are doing in that arena, avoid it or get an experienced aerobatic pilot to do it for you. Do not aggressively induce a spin and hold it in the spin beyond a quarter turn to start with, then work up to a half turn, then 3/4 turn, and one turn. If you get up to two turns with no recovery difficulties, quit at that point. My planes spun similar to a Cessna 150----quite nose low and you had to hold pro-spin controls to keep them in the spin. They rattled and rumbled during the spin. The wide body, folding wing, Sunderland airfoil, constant speed Thorp of Leroy Holt's spun flat as a frisbee and had no rattle or rumble at all. I am too timid in my old age to want to go out and intentionally do spins. You do need to know how to recover from an inadvertent spin if you are going to engage in any aerobatics. If you don't have stall strips installed, you may not feel the subtle stall warning at the top of a loop or similar maneuver and find yourself snapping into a spin while falling out of the top of a loop attempt. Panic at that point or unfamiliarity with proper spin recovery procedures could be terminal.

Gary Green

I'll throw in my two pennies on this, Lou - about 4 months into getting my first T-18, and during a flight, I had a momentary lapse of reason during a minute of fecal brain syndrome and attempted a loop - my airport elevation is 4600 MSL - the class B floor in the area I was flying was 8000, so I entered the loop at about 1500 ft below the class B floor at 6500 MSL - about 1900 AGL - I know...stoopid!! - entered about 140 Kts indicated and made a weak pull - I don't remember how many Gs other than it was TOO LITTLE - stalled near the top and fell out inverted - the motor quit (wood prop) and I found myself looking up at the ground going in a circle - I know I did not panic, but I also know I was not using rhyme or reason manipulating the controls for a few seconds and was completely disoriented - shit (not mine) was flying all around the cockpit - somehow I ended up in a left hand spin with the nose pointed down at about a 45 degree angle (my memory is good with that part) and common sense and training took over and I pushed and opposite rudder and thought I was golden - the next thing I remember was the ASI going through the yellow arc and FAST - As I had further refined lack of common sense by entering at a less than the recommended altitude, I was a wee sniglet concerned as to my time remaining AGL in a state of rapid descent - I got it slowing down without inducing much G and recovered about 1500 AGL, restarted the motor and soldiered on back to the airport - I was calm and frosty until I landed, after which the full depth of my complete idiocy sunk in realizing what could have happened and I got a minor case of the shakes while taxiing back to the hangar and planning a search for some recently lost dignity - also while taxiing, I realized some pens, a flashlight and fuel sumper had fallen out out their pockets and who knew where they ended up - thankfully not in the controls - I found everything in the plane except the fuel sumper - I think it went out the canopy vent and a cow ate it.
When I got my US ticket in Houston, the FAA had deemed "spin avoidance" the operable language in the PP syllabus - I rebelled and forced my instructor to teach me under threat of his deportation (he was from Shveeden) - I practiced it regularly and alone in an aerobat until I could do it (enter and recover) second nature - when I recognized I was in a conventional (vs inverted/flat) spin in the T-18, I reacted quickly and naturally - yet the speed at which the T-18 accelerated caught me off guard for a half second or so - - another second or two of hesitation and my recovery may have been at or over 210 and may have bent or wrinkled the wings. I do not remember what my airspeed was at the apex of the pull - I did not exceed Vne, (or over G the airplane), but it got closer than I ever wanna see it again. - I've since taken some aerobatic rides in other airplanes and have purchased some additional common sense as a buffer and am not so full of myself as was the invincible aviator I once thought of myself.

I wish I would have had someone with me at the time who was familiar with the T-18.

Lou,
The only way ill do spins is,
1) if the airplane has spun before
2) you modify the canopy for fast release. Ie dump it
3) I am wearing a parachute.
Take a look at the amount of rudder that is below the horizontal. That is your ONLY control power to get you out of a fully developed spin. Everything else is blanked. To be honest, I have not spun my airplane. I do not intend to. I can do a boatload of aerobatics without coming close to spinning it. Remember, it has to be stalled with the ball off center to spin.
Are you wanting to spin for fun? Or are you trying to make sure you are safe enough to recover from a botched maneuver?
Cubes

Thanks for the input guy

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Lou : Good for you trying to improve the proficiency . From your write ups I assume you have had NO spin training ? If not just find a good CFI and get a few turns in a C-150 . It will boost your confidence and prepare you for the unexpected . FWIW...I think EVERY PP should have at least one hour of spin training . When I was instructing I required my students to experience the spin . They all thanked me for the 1 hour lesson .

RB

I thought the spins you taught were at the bar.....

Ya, I

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Yep Fraser...and you are still not qualified . With you spinning with that dress on creates a lot of vertigo !

RB

I spin my Plane once a week,I have never had any troubles and it is very predictable. Getting it out of the spin is very easy as it it very docile and controllable. My CG must be just about right for spinning because it enters the spin very quickly and as fast as it goes into a spin it can be stopped,this is how I do it: Whilst taxing down in front of the hangers on the way to my hanger I get my feet positioned just right on the Pedals, carefully watching my speed so as not to rush things I see the edge of my hanger appear out from just in front of the right wing, I hesitate just a twiddle and then I do it!!!! I step on the left brake and the tail spins around and points itself right at the hanger it is at this precise moment
And this is very important,I lightly Brake!!!!! The spin is instantly stopped,all is well, I exit the bird and push it tail first into the hanger. This is the extent of my spin training and I am getting good at it!!! If all would be happy with this method of spinning we would all less adventurous I will admit, but we will all be around to talk about it, Be careful.......Dan

Dan: You've been running that engine in the hangar with the door closed !

RB