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Tornadojoe
 Post subject: Spins
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:55 am 
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How well does a T/S 18 spin. How easy is it to enter an unintentional spin. Most importantly, how easy is it to recover from a spin.
Thanks for any comments and advise, Tornadojoe


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Bill Williams
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:07 pm 
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I'm still waiting on the last guy to spin his Thorp to report back on how it spins and recovers!


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Jeff J
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:54 pm 
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The builder of mine put a note in the log recommending against spins in my airplane because it had a tendency drop the tail as the spin developed. He said he didn't have any trouble getting out of the spin but he was afraid it would flatten out and he wouldn't be able to get out of it if he let it develop much past a turn. I haven't tried it yet and mine could handle quite a bit differently than yours.

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James Grahn
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:45 pm 
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These things are built in shops at home. They will vary a lot. If you look at the tail, and imagine the plane in a spin, you will be reluctant to try it.
Cubes


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dickwolff
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:40 am 
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Probably best not to go there. It proves nothing, and if you get into a spin "unintentionally," you probably shouldn't be flying the airplane.

Like Jim said, individual examples behave differently. You won't know what you've got until you try it. There is a harrowing story somewhere (newsletter? Old Thorp website) where one of our highly experienced pilots (with plenty of military background) test-spun one particular airplane and it went flat. You should look it up and read it... it will make the hairs on your neck stand up. He almost didn't make it.

Yet others examples are perfectly normal.

IMHO, all T18/S18s should have stall strips. They turn the beast into a pussycat. Mine just porpoised like a Cherokee. If you don't stall, you won't spin.

D


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Lou
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:41 am 
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IMHO, all T18/S18s should have stall strips. They turn the beast into a pussycat. Mine just porpoised like a Cherokee. If you don't stall, you won't spin.

D[/quote]

2751's power off clean stalls just sort of "settles "a little straight ahead. no stall strips, no beast.

I may be the guy they are waiting on for a spin report. After advise from this board i decided it wasn't necessary to practice spins in this airplane.

I don't think the plane is a problem at all, maybe the pilot. Last year i was flying in the #2 spot desperately trying to follow lead in a poorly executed initial and pitchout at an unfamiliar airport, i was disoriented trying to follow lead and make spacing I found my self on sort of a short final low,slow, and the ball smashed into the corner. not a good place to be in any airplane and certainly not the thorp! I didn't wait to finish greasing my shorts, I stomped on the ball, gave it a little more throttle and pointed the nose at the numbers and the T18 just did what It was told to do.

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Tornadojoe
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:28 pm 
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To dickwolff,
The reason we teach spins is that there are pilots and instructors that have a certain air about themselves that with their level of flying skills, they would never enter an "unintentional" spin. I was returning home one day in a Cherokee 235 the day after a powerful cold front had passed through the area. On landing while turning from base to final, I flew through a horizontal wind shear, resulting in an instantaneous 20-25 kt. loss of airspeed. The stall warning was on solid and the air flow over the wings starting to buffet. By using right rudder to stop the turn and full throttle , I managed to fly the little Cherokee out of the imminent Stall without losing a significant amount of altitude. This made a believer out of me. NO ONE is immune to unintentional stall/spin situations. And that's why we teach spins.

Thanks for your advise and comments, Tornadojoe, CFI


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Jeff J
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:27 pm 
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I managed to do an unintentional spin in a C-152 as a student pilot on a solo cross country flight. I was a little ahead of schedule on the way back so I slowed down as I passed through the "practice area" to practice some slow flight. I was 90° to the wind when I decided I just as well stall it while I was configured for it. A small gust as the stall broke and around I went. I had a good instructor. He did actually teach spins. Unfortunately, it wasn't until the next day we actually did my first intentional spin.

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"The joke in aviation is, 'If you want to make a million, you'd better start with £10m.' " -Bruce Dickinson


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James Grahn
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:08 pm 
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The T18 and S18 both passed spin testing by their designers. My point was that you really can not count on each airplane being built exactly as the ones that were spin tested.
Cubes


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Bill Williams
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:13 am 
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Agreeing with Cubes, Several years ago Bob and I rebuilt a T18 for a fellow and the faster you went the harder it would roll left. We examined the the wings and found that each wing had a different airfoil. One was blunt as a J3 the other looked like an F101. Out came the 2x4 and hammer. Problem solved. As Cubes said no two are built the same.


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Rich Brazell
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:13 am 
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At the time I went thru PP training (early 70's) , spin training was optional . Did mine in a Piper Cherokee . Not sure what the PP license requirements are now for spin training , but everyone should do at least 1 spin hop (in an AC that can be spun) to see the big picture and learn the "basic" spin recovery procedures . ;) No one wants to hear the ATC tapes with you saying..."I should have done that spin hop , instead I had a V8 !" :o

RB O0
T-2 Buckeye spin survivor


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jrevens
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:36 am 
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Like Rich, I learned to fly in the early 70's. I've done spins in several airplanes... my young instructor wouldn't do 'em in the 150, so after I soloed I taught myself. Started out with steep spirals, thinking I was spinning. Then I discovered the real thing. Even did one with my dad in that little 150. Then I took aerobatic instruction... Decathalon and a Great Lakes biplane. Learned about inverted spins. I've only done a spin once in my T-18. It didn't feel "comfortable" to me and I didn't let it go over about one turn. That was really enough for me. A parachute is not really practical in a T-18 - it would be damn near impossible for me to get out fast enough, especially with my long legs, even if you could shed the canopy. Be careful.

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Lou
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Maybe this thread is yawing left/
so Joe, are you thinking of buying a good used T18 or building a shiny new S18?

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Tornadojoe
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Lou, I've spent two years studying the drawings and watching videos and builder's site forums for the Midget Mustang. Just when I was ready to commit to it, I decided that I should go find one and try it on for size. I'm only five feet ten inches tall, but felt like I was sitting in a go-cart with my knees in my chest. Getting back out of it was an ordeal in itself. I started researching the S 18 with considerations for building one. So far, I've learned nothing about the airplane that makes me want one. For now, I'll just drop back and punt. Thanks for responding to my post, Joe


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dickwolff
 Post subject: Re: Spins
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:45 pm 
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Well I'm lookin' so if anyone knows of a good T18, call me. 5193865720.

Don't make me buy an RV.


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