Thorp Air Command - T18.net

This was posted on another homebuilt webpage. Several people commented the thorp was more difficult to land and others said the guy posting must have had a thorp that had misaligned gear.
What say you guys?

Here is the quote:

"OK guys....here's another question I'm pondering. I know there are diehards on both sides of this one, and I apologize in advance if this topic has been beat to death, but please bare with me. I see a lot of taildragger -6's for sale. I have my TD endorsement, but I owned a Thorp at the time and the dang thing scared me to death. No problems taking off or flying, but landing was terrifying, even for a CFII AND my C-17 Aircraft Commander son. So, I kept it 6 months and sold it. My question is this.....are Van's TD's any more docile. I cannot get into another situation where I'm scared to fly an A/C. Thanks again in advance. Let the games begin......"

I got out of a 1957 Cessna Skyhawk( good ole bird) and right into my S-18 the following week for tailwheel training. I was a new pilot, spent about 12 hrs with my instructor and got my TW endorsement. That was about 5years ago, The first 6 months of flying the Thorp was a learning experience, speed control on landing was paramount. I have long since flown and landed the t-18, no surprises here, the bird is from the same stable as the S version, that became very apparent. Both versions of the Thorp really as far as I know had no bad tendencies. ran across one Thorp that had a situation where the stick hit the seat before it got full throw of the stabilator, this caused some different characteristics. I can't speak for the RV line of ships, never been in one, Just my opinion and I will say this with every intention of be constructive: If the landing process in the Thorp, or the RV, is a terrifying experience for the person at the control stick, then quite possibly there may be a lack of information during the training process, or possibly some control alterations need to be addressed or adjusted, or possibly more practice is needed. keep in mind I I have just been flying for about 5 years and there is a lot more experience out there than what I can offer. Also, I can bounce the thorp on landing just like I did the Skyhawk..............Dan

Hey:

I’m a short timer myself, only a couple of years in my Thorp. I hadn’t logged more than 400 hrs in about ten years before but most of that was TD. Time. I got a few laps with my instructor in an RV-6 and ran off to pick up my Thorp. The -6 is a fairly quick TDer compared to a Cub. My first few flights in the Thorp we used up all the runway, BOTH sides. It’s short and the gear has no forgiveness but what at first seems like crazy quick soon turns to super control. Bud Davison told me the Pitts has no bad characteristics, it only does what you tell it to do. The Thorp is the same way. It is not a sloppy easy plane to land it wants it to be right on the money and it will let you know it when it’s not.

And that is where the fun begins! For me it’s all about the attitude. If you WANT to fly a Thorp then you will get it no problem. For me greasing one on is a challenge I look forward to every time I fly, and when I bounce it we go back and do it again.
Renee flies with me a lot and the landing has become somewhat of a joke. Every one is analyzed, critiqued, and discussed all the way to the ramp, nothing short of grease will do.
In the end all airplane go faster and look better with conventional gear, and nose wheels are for pussies.

Ha, ha
Lou

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http://www.dixiefriedfabrication.com/

Kinda funny Lou, seems I can do a greaser when nobodies around, the wife is not with me and all I can do is just say I did a greasy one. Sometimes if I have a little bounce and the wife is with me she always says that I did a perfect landing and all is well. I agree that the Thorp will do exactly what you tell it, and it wont hesitate. There was an RV-4 (clean one, nice lookin bird) TDGer sold at KVIS, it was too much for the owner, he is along in his years(like me)and was just not comfortable with it I believe and I cant blame him it was probably a good Idea. He is now building one of them bush rigs Ch-107? or something like that and is about finished he is one heck of a builder. Dan

OH, by the way, I have flown in a nose wheel S-18, 360 w/ a constant speed, it was slick as a pin. Anybody out there have one of these? a post would be appreciated.....Dan

I am no expert (as my formation landing at KY Dam can attest) but I did use a new CFI for my flight review a couple of months ago. He has an RV-6. After I landed a couple of times he did one. His comment was the Thorp rudder inputs were a lot smaller than his RV-6. He was over correcting some since he was used to moving the pedals farther. He said we will go fly his someday so I can see the difference. When we do I will report back.

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Matt Smith
Des Moines, IA
55RC

The gent from whom I purchased my current aircraft remarked (after the purchase) that it "scared" his two teenage pilot sons when they were landing the plane. When I first got it, I flew it about 4 hours and perhaps 8 or 10 landings - I thought it seems a little "loose" compared to my previous T-18, but not anything about which I was concerned. I figgered to replace the tailwheel (off a pits) with the rod spring set up. While replacing, I stripped (keep it together Rich).....a nut plate....off came the tail feathers and the reason for the "looseness" became clear. Metal was broken and wobbly. THe bolster plate was attached to the bottom skin only. There are photos on this site somewhere of what occurred and how I and a friend repaired it. I should have known and should have checked that area when I thought is was a bit loose.

Point being....perhaps some have soiled a nappy landing or rolling out a T-18 - it may not be (correction - IS NOT) the design, but could be something inherent in the gear, both main and tail. I am convinced that if you are lazy legged or lazy brained, this plane will not forgive either trait. If you love to fly and live for it, as do I, a T-18 will keep you happy.

If someone tells me they are afraid of, or cannot land a T-18 because it is too squirrely or other such flamboyant description, I suspect they are just not cut out for taildraggers, and/or either will not, or cannot achieve the level of skill required for safe operations without a training wheel on the front. Having said that, some recognize their limitations, and elect to fly nose wheel, and I have even more respect for that attitude.

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Fraser MacPhee
N926WM
Serial #279-1
Angel Fire, NM (KAXX)

This is a heads up aircraft . You can not let your guard down for a second . It will demand your full attention from engine start to engine shut down , especially during TO and landing . Even during taxing you can end up in the Briar Patch and Briar Rabbit will not be happy ! Landing is a full time job in this AC . On speed , in the groove , on centerline , no drift . Like Fraser said...there may other causes for a Jethro Bodine landing (broken fitting on the tail wheel attach bracket)... Tire pressure , wheel alignment and some interesting rudder cable to tail wheel arrangements I saw at OSH ? Loose attachment linkage/springs and some questionable tail wheels to boot .

RB

Faster and Higher

After noticing some unusual tire wear, I realigned my main gear wheels. I use readily available shim stock from the Yeungling Company here in the Tampa area. It turns out that their containers are .040 thick and easily cut and shaped to slide between the gear leg and the axel assembly. I noticed marked improvement in directional control for taxi, takeoff, and landing after the alignment exercise. I use a carpenter's laser modified to lie on the outside of the wheel and aim it on a known point on the horizontal stab to measure the "trueness" of the gear. Remember: one degree equals 1:60. If your wheel is one degree off, you are dragging your wheel sideways a foot for every sixty feet you travel!

For those of you not familiar with the Yeungling Company, it is America's oldest brewery.

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Bob Highley
N711SH
SN 835
KLAL

Whoops! Too much Yuengling! The thickness of the container should have said .004".

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Bob Highley
N711SH
SN 835
KLAL

Wisc,
The Thorp may be a little more difficult to land well. It's gear is much stiffer. It is much shorter coupled. But when properly aligned, it's not that big of a deal. All the RV tail draggers I've flown have sloppy gear. If you taxi in formation with one, you will see it. The gear just shakes and shimmys all the time. Their solution is to glass some paint stir sticks around the gear leg. Sounds pretty dumb to me. Two sets of Thorp gear legs were made to try on an RV 4 and 6. As far as I know, they have not been installed yet. Most RVs go through tires in about 100 hours, as opposed to 400 to 500 in a Thorp.
Cubes

Maybe its just me, but I find that a cross-wind has a lot of effect on the Thorp during landing. It doesn't even have to be a big cross-wind (in either velocity or direction), but you gotta really use that stick and rudder to get it right and keep it tracking the right way during the landing roll. I guess its the slab sided fuselage.

Just had this discussion with Mike at CSA. We have a very powerful rudder. When I landed in Mississippi with a 30 kt crosswind, I still had plenty of rudder. I did bang the aileron stops a time or two. That's in a T. The S has what, 16 inches less aileron? Might be more of a factor. I don't know. As of now, my S time is somewhat limited. Point is, use what you have to line it up, period.
Cubes

I landed at Casa Grande in a 25-30 kt 90 degree x-wind in my S-18 . It was a handful , but was able to land slightly left of centerline . With the gusts it was a challenge . I had plenty of authority . Plant the AC on the ground and maintain directional control . Forget about a "greaser" Lou !

RB

Higher and Faster

I'm with Bob, proper alignment does make a huge difference. When I test flew mine I wasn't sure I was "man" enough to handle the thing, or at least I wasn't gonna' enjoy it. I corrected the alignment & it turned into a relative pussycat. I like the Thorp gear better than the RV gear for a number of reasons. The fact that the airplane lands just a little bit faster than an RV-6 might be a minor factor for some. Like Cubes said... good rudder & aileron authority - I like that with either airplane.

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John Evens
Arvada, Colorado
T-18 N71JE (sold)
Kitfox 7 SS N27JE