Thorp Air Command - T18.net

Ok Thorpies,

Today I calculated the required flight test hours for Phase I and the additional five hours for testing and qualifying the EM76 prop as spare for my airplane. Condition Inspection completed, signed off in the airframe log and can now go anywhere, do anything...within our limits of course. Maybe I'll see some of you at Fredricksburg.

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In CowTown USA,
Don D-Day
NX18DD

Good for you, Don! Looking to see you out and about.

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Bob Highley
N711SH
SN 835
KLAL

Don, did they require 25 hours for phase 1?

Not sure why this topic was under classifieds .. pretty sure you're not selling the baby Don. That being said I moved it to "Thorp T-18 -> In the Air" (sorry Don we don't have a "Thorp-Sunderland TS-18CW -> In the Air")

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

Phase I required 40 hours on account of not having a certified propeller. My prop is a Performance Propeller by Frank Johnson here in Texas where he's working on it installing leading edge caps, shaving a little at the hub to make one of the blades come in with the other two and should have it ready this week. The EM76 prop is much more sluggish on take-off, but does well at cruise.

Don't know what that post was doing in the classifieds Lee. Did you put it there? You're trying to sell the only TS-18CW on records? $50K is the opening bid if selling.

I would not even think of such a thing Don ... Your due many years in that bird!

I did not put it there, it looks you created it there. Not a big deal, it happens from time to time, that's what I get paid the big bucks for!

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

Just josssshing you, but the truth Lee, all those topics in the forum send me to spinning like a top. I can't tell one from the other and can't figure out where to answer or reply to a post in the topic list. I like simplicity with computers even as someone who built his own several times.

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In CowTown USA,
Don D-Day
NX18DD

Ok Don fairnuff a little joshing is always good.

To the other points...allow me to simplify it for you;

To answer or reply to a posting just hit the reply button on the posting you are reading (on the forum of course not from you email)

To create a new one just ask yourself what you are about to write about ... If all else fails put it under miscellaneous.

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

Lee, Don and all;
I'm getting N883FF ready for condition inspection sign off, and reading your post about Phase 1 testing caused me to look at my Operating Limitations.
Issued in 1985, they require notifying the FAA and getting permission prior to the first flight after modifying the air craft.
An engine or propeller change would be an example.
I understand the newer Op Limits are more lenient? Propeller changing is so common, more leeway would be better.
Anyone have a comment or helpful advise?

In very short summary; You are required to notify the local FSDO of any "Major Change", the proposed test area and then observe a minimal 5 hr test period (or whatever they dictate). in addition you need to make a logbook entry of the change(s) performed and later after the test period has been flown off.

"Major Change" basically means anything that could affect the airworthiness of the airplane. So yes, changing the prop qualifies as a major change. For more info look up FAR 21.93

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

When dealing with "Major Alterations" such as engine or propeller, the requiremets for contacting FSDO to obtain concurrence with test and test venue depends primarily in how the order is written. Some are written when changing constant speed to fixed pitch and viseversa. In some cases a fixed pitch to fixed pitch may require a log entry only with the blip returning to Phase II after the five hours test. See Order 8130.2E which allows prop changes withoug going back into Phase I.

I may also add that when contacting the FSDO as required by the Operating Limitations order given you when Airworthiness was issued, by contacting the DAR if you went through a DAR, you are in fact contacting FSDO.

Although Don is technically correct, my prior comment comes from a recommendation from EAA. Basically they recommend contacting the local FSDO as a safe measure. I can guarantee that if you have an incident an hour after changing out your Prince prop for an AD the feds are going to make note of it and fault the operator.

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

I'm wondering about the difference between the Op Limits that were written for N883FF when it was issued in 1985, and the way they are writting them today?
I understand that if I change the N Number, new Op Limits will be issued?
How will they differ?

I do not believe they will issue new ops limits. They should just amend the existing Ops limts and AW certificate.

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Lee Walton
Houston, TX
N51863,N118LW
KEFD

When I rebuilt N18GR, I changed the prop from the cut-down metal Sensenich to a Catto composite--this is a major change in the FAA's eyes. I had the old operating limitations that invalidate the AW certificate when you make a major change (i.e. you have to go back and ask the FAA "pretty please may I have a new AW certificate".). I worked with a very competent FAA guy out of the Sacramento FSDO, who gave me new operating limitations and a new AW certificate (and also inspected the airplane like it had been just built). The new OLs now only require 5 hours testing for any new major change and a log-book entry with the requisite wording--no requirement to contact the FAA. The newer OLs are much better than the old IMHO.

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Dave M
Sacramento
ex-T-18 owner