Thorp Air Command - T18.net

Supporting Owners, Builders and Pilots of the Thorp T-18 and its variants.
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Jeff J
 Post subject: Re: Thorps for Sale
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:39 pm 
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I wasn't intending to make any digs at anyone. Just pointing out what I looked at as a buyer. One thing I did forget to mention was the pre-punched kits. Having the kit pre-punched helps to ensure a straight aircraft when the build it done. The Thorp is closer to an RV-6 than a 7. Even that isn't a great comparison because the 6 isn't that much smaller than the 7. I looked at several 6's that were priced at or below $40k.

This kind of reminds me of when I bought my first ATV. All of the off road magazines at the time were comparing the 300 I bought to 350 and 400 models from other brands. Naturally the 300 didn't do everything as well as the bigger machines but it was right there overall and cost less.

John doesn't feel like he is at a disadvantage because he hasn't needed anything T-18 specific. I am thinking if a gear gets bent, then it is likely the wing will be too. My understanding is the T-18 wing is different than the S-18 and Cubes only sells S-18 parts (a lot cross over). To be fair on the T-18 parts procurement, I haven't made another attempt to get what I need for a couple of months and the reason for not selling to me at the time was acceptable to me. It just bothers me that after all this time I still haven't seen anything publicly announcing who has the plans for the T-18 or how to contact them. Personally, I am feeling a bit orphaned.

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jtwigg
 Post subject: Re: Thorps for Sale
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Hi Jeff, I think I understand your point about getting parts for a wing, etc. You're saying that post RV-6, if you bend a wing you can just order some new pre-punched ribs and skin and it's no big deal to re-assemble and the parts just fit. For a Thorp, I think you're saying it's much more involved to get out the plans, make templates for ribs, source the materials, and reconstruct, for example. Basically, Vans is doing to plans-built planes what Ford did to the hundreds of craftsmen-built motor carriage companies before him by standardizing the vehicle and making each part identical. I imagine it's maybe tricky to do *without* the rights to manufacture parts per the plans.

I'm new and haven't needed anything too specific, so I'll ask if T-18 parts procurement is hampered by the T-18 rights? This may be an over-simplification, but should the group buy the rights if the price was right and help our suppliers? Is there enough demand? Chicken and egg crap... O:)

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James Grahn
 Post subject: Re: Thorps for Sale
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:57 am 
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No John,
What it means is that... when my wife and I bought the assets of Classic Sport Aviation, we also bought the design rights. It's comparable to a patent. I have lineage letters of the sale of the S from Lou all the way to me to prove I own the plans etc.
Another family bought the same thing for the T. He and I have spoken. He is not in a position in his life right now to go into business. I intend to support both platforms as much as I can. Unfortunately there are molds and bucks that I do not own. I could have them made, but then again, if I do and the current owner of the T decides to go into business, I'm out that money.
Cubes


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Jeff J
 Post subject: Re: Thorps for Sale
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:00 am 
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I should have been more specific in differentiating between the T-18 and the S-18. This thread was started with an ad for a $60K T-18. There is support and kits available for the S-18. In my opinion, that makes the S-18 more valuable in the market (at least on par with the RV-6). Unfortunately, I also believe the lack of support for the T-18 is dragging down the value of the S-18 because they are all considered "Thorp".

While we are on the subject.... Why hasn't the website been updated to remove Eklund Engineering as the contact for the T-18? I doubt they get that many calls but I know I would prefer to not field questions and requests for a product I no longer owned. If the new owner isn't ready then a simple note about the T-18 business changing hands with more info to follow when available would suffice.

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jtwigg
 Post subject: Re: Thorps for Sale
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:57 pm 
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Cubes, is this something that the forum members can help with, such as writing this person on your behalf? Or just let it be?

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John Twigg N12055 SN.79 Pittsburgh, PA (KFWQ)


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jtwigg
 Post subject: Re: Thorps for Sale
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Here's another Thorp T-17 for sale you may know about. It has a Lycoming O320-B3B 160HP he says.
Are prices creeping up? ;D

It's listed in the Aviator's Hotline magazine for June 2017. My copy just came in today. Listing: http://www.aircraftforsale.com/aircraft/thorp-t-18

"1977 Thorp T-18 * S/N 108 * N1014Z $42,000"

"A strong flyer in excellent condition! 1330 TTAF, 819 SOH, Prop 819 SNEW,
Strobe lights, landing light, Cleveland brakes, King KLX 135A with GPS
William Morse * (719) 473-5128 * http://www.morseflight@comcast.net"


Note that he either has a typo, a weird email address, or he couldn't make up his mind whether it was a web address or email address!

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John Twigg N12055 SN.79 Pittsburgh, PA (KFWQ)


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James Grahn
 Post subject: Re: Thorps for Sale
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:29 pm 
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Let it be, please, John. I don't want him to feel pressure. He is newly married and starting a family. I'm going to make some phone calls next week. Really, the main things I can't help with are nose and main ribs. Maybe I can get something moving soon.
Cubes


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Lou
 Post subject: Re: Thorps for Sale
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:12 am 
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Pissing about the T/S 18 market value is a giant wast of time unless all of us are willing to do something about it. the simple unchangeable facts (public opinion) are The T's are too small, difficult to handle on the ground, have poor performance, unsupported.

The T's arent too small, Americans are too fat, It's a young mans airplane but the roar of the RV crown drowns out the T.
ground handling: the young uns are pussys.
Poor performance: this stems from the large majority of old T's are powered by GPU's.
Support:That is changing as fast as it can change, you all can help by... wait for it.... Buying shit from Cubes. And don't cry like little girls at the price, trust me C is doing you a fav. he aint charging nearly what he should be. And stop assuming shit and spreading stupid rumors like you can't get spars. Bottom line: ASK, Thorp Central is changing daily due to a tremendous effort on Cubes part.

RV's are mass produced made in china ASS, and shouldn't even be considered homebuilt. They are so far out in front there is absolutely nothing to be done about that. BUT that can be a detriment in and of it's self. Sonix is a tiny taildragging piece of crap and they are growing by leaps, RV's aren't hurting them so not really an excuse.

The two biggest problems with T value is The thing hasn't been updated since the S came out and no body south of 70 even knows the damn thing exist. SO............ Buy shit including AV gas get out and fly. get those project in the air and if you can't get it up, help someone that will.
Here in SoCal we are beginning to see movement. two yung uns have just bought their second Thorp, the Corona boys have just put their second thorp in the air and with a proper engine. I'm picking up a second project myself in about a week and its going to be completely new inside and out.

One last thing to remember, for those that missed it, we've been in a recession for the past eight years, shit don't change overnight.
so there ya go.

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James Grahn
 Post subject: Re: Thorps for Sale
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:41 pm 
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Harrumph!
Cubes


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Rich Brazell
 Post subject: Re: Thorps for Sale
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Mr. Lou : You are always so smoooooth with words ! :P

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