Thorp T-18 Mutual Aid Society
Thorp T-18 Mutual Aid Society
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T O P I C    R E V I E W
admin Posted - 09/14/2010 : 11:48:38
This is the first posting of several. Take a look at Larry Guillot's (BlackOPS) beautiful Thorp! Purchased last year it was originally completed in 1969. I knew the airplane back in the 1980's as it was owned by a good friend of ours, Vern Peppard. He was a big fan of Kong (N48PW) hence the "Kong inspired paint job.

FYI there's a point to this posting so hang on there's more to come.

15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
David P Posted - 09/15/2010 : 23:52:15
Thank you
A picture is worth a thousand words

leewwalton Posted - 09/15/2010 : 13:32:50
Here's the most common method. Bracket attached to the aft carb studs.

David P Posted - 09/15/2010 : 13:05:59
Re Throttle Control
Looking at the pictures and the comment. I have a question, with an 0-290 and a rear mounted carb, what is there to tie the throttle cable to? The original configuration I inherited fixed the throttle outer sleeve to a funny looking bracket bolted to the A frame. I would like to re-do this but there is nothing on the back of the engine to mount a bracket to. I had thought to mount the throttle to the firewall with an eye ball fitting and fix the outer sleeve there. I presume the objection to this is the relative movement of the engine on it's mount and transferring vibration to the throttle linkage?

Richard H Woodcock Posted - 09/15/2010 : 04:54:49
Just to clarify, I'm sure that Fraze was refering to not needing to safety when Nylocks are used, and I agree - although Lee's point is well taken in the case of a wooden prop. I know that there are certificated aircraft the have the prop installed with non-safetyed self-locking nuts, and other experimentals as well.
With a backer plate, it's a different matter, and hard to believe.

Actually, the whole aircraft is hard to believe. From the pictures, the cosmetics are certainly competently done and professional quality, but the mechanics. . .

Far better to have an ugly but airworthy aircraft.
Bill Williams Posted - 09/15/2010 : 03:59:25
and here I thought it was a guy who had been around long enough to keep his lies straight or someone that knows more and more about less and less.......
fytrplt Posted - 09/14/2010 : 18:41:53
Remember: An expert is a has-been drip under presure.
Fraser MacPhee Posted - 09/14/2010 : 17:54:03
No offense taken Larry - everyone's an X-Spurt - I only fully trust an expert.
BlackOPS Posted - 09/14/2010 : 17:20:54
I'll drop a note in here to aid Lee Walton with the explanations. With respect to the prop safety wiring issue; I just completed an intensive 12 month A&P course with Embry-Riddle, a boot camp for the FAA A&P practical 2 day examination with the FAA examiner that give the examine in this region, and I can assure you that as an A&P, you would fail the exam if you didn't safety wire those bolts, period. Every A&P in the world can tell you want they want, but I'm telling you for a fact you would fail the examine if you didn't safety wire them. BTW, there were not any nylocks or anything else on these bolts. It was a custom back plate that was threaded for the AN bolts, and I personally unscrewed two of the retaining bolts by hand. No matter how you slice it, that just plain nuts gentlemen!

Wait until Lee shows you some of the other images... Can you say "death trap"! I flew across the Gulf of Mexico, not once, but twice; fat, dumb, and happy.

An image is worth a thousand "someone told me". Not trying to offend anyone here, but I've heard so many people saying "he said, she said" over the years, that I just want to state for the record, "It's not worth your life, do the research, and don't rely on the A&P you trust because after taking the courses I can tell you there are a lot of very bad ones out there. One of them signed off on this aircraft a week before I picked it up.

All of this has since gone to the FAA for an investigation and audit of the A&P in question. Frankly, I would never have purchased this AC knowing what condition it was in. Fortunately, I can inspect my next purchase myself, with a great deal of confidence. Nuf said.
leewwalton Posted - 09/14/2010 : 15:58:03
There are more systems to come ... I was just going to let everyone digest the FWF for a bit. As Rich said, wait till you see the electrical!!!
Rich Brazell Posted - 09/14/2010 : 15:28:42
I only use metal lock nuts firewall foward. AN363/MS21042. I learned that lesson many years ago by using elastic stop nuts (AN364/365) in the engine compartment of my MG. The center melted like a Worthers carmel chew !

Rich Brazell Posted - 09/14/2010 : 15:23:12
I've seen some of the other pics of Larrys A/C that he has sent me...the before pictures. They are amazing. It is a wonder it got safely off the ground without a fire or major component falling off ! The electrical wiring scared the crap out of me ! I am not sure how an A & P could sign some of this off ?

Larry has kept me up to speed on his rebuild progress and I am sure it will be one fine A/C when done.


leewwalton Posted - 09/14/2010 : 14:28:38
I think the benefit in safetying the bolts is to prevent the bolt from spinning in the hole if/when the prop shrinks. If the bolts were allowed to spin (as is the case with Larry's airplane), it could spin around and elongate the hole in the prop, and in turn damage the prop. I for one don't want anything spinning around up there. I'd prefer everything stay still!

Frase is right though, if you diligently inspect the prop every 25 hrs you're probably fine. Obviously this guy did not.
Richard H Woodcock Posted - 09/14/2010 : 13:52:54
That's what I've been told as well. I doubt that safetying a bolt when the nut can freely turn does much, if anything. Probably some torque should be added "for the nut". Personally, I'd feel more comfortable with metal lock nuts than nylocks, tho. - what's other's opinion?

Pretty plane and interior. I think I'd be really comfortable sitting in it - on the ground, of course.
Fraser MacPhee Posted - 09/14/2010 : 12:43:54
Wow - some real goofy stuff there

Just to clarify tho, for those of us with woodys and who check the bolt torque every 25 hours, is it not OK to use nylock nuts on the back without using safety wire/drilled head bolts. I was told by X-Spurts that is common and acceptable.
admin Posted - 09/14/2010 : 12:17:01
Here's what you find out when you pull the covers off ... this is just FWF by the way. There will be another posting(s) on the other systems.

This is what happens when you get a series shotty A&P's/Owners maintaining an otherwise perfectly good airplane.

NOTE: As a disclaimer, I'm presenting this out here with Larry's permission.

Take a look at the grounding stud ... how many threads do you think are holding that birds nest on there?

Silicone grommet around that vacuum line?

Same here, this is the main fuel line ...

... and this is what happens!

... and again.

That looks secure! Let's FLY!

Need somewhere to secure the carb heat control? Try the fuel line!

This is where the breather dumps oil into. Just jammed in between the gear and the engine mount. Nice and full too. I bet that will get your attention when it drops out and oil starts burning on the pipe.

Larry can clarify this but I think this is the either 12V to the bus or the starter line.

Another "secure" engine control. This is the Throttle control. Forgetting that this is not the way to secure a control, it's attached to the engine mount, not the engine ... two for the price of one here!

Safety Wire on the prop? Larry says one of these bolts was finger loose.

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